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03-23-2024, 06:50 AM
This post was last modified 03-23-2024, 06:51 AM by Maxmars.
Edit Reason: formatting
Frankly, debate has a very odd public image.
I imagine the imagery surrounding debate is terribly afflicted with bad examples. Most of them are provided to the public via the showmanship of media exploitation. We often see abundant examples of "poor" debate in the public venues of the internet. Popular talking heads are featured prominently in internet monetized 'clips' which announce in their titles with taglines like "So and so crushes such and such." Usually, no such 'crushing' ever takes place, and the 'producers' simply appeal to the presumed love of one side or the others' bias. Most times there is not enough within the content to provide a basis to interpret the exchange as a debate at all.
Other examples feature something which is also not really debate at all. Our "political" debates are not even close. The moderators are weak, more concerned with form than function. The participants are campaigning, not debating. To add insult to injury, they aren't even addressing each other's points, just jabbing and engaging in populism and showmanship. Theater... you gotta love it, right?
Less thoughtful debaters are often thwarted by their own inability to stay away from attacking each other personally. And some even can't fathom that the topic is more important than opponent. They will casually use phrases like "You are just like a ...." or "People like you..." sadly considering a good quip or funny meme "a winning blow." There is place and time for such things, debate is not one of them. Name-calling, hyperbolic characterizations, extreme misinterpretations are all things we used to never accept except in activist journalism... and even then, it was recognized as opinion... now it seems it is sought after, and exalted as if it were a circus act... entertainment for its own sake. While debate can be entertaining, and even feature tremendous humor and wit, it will always be relevant to the central subject.
“In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.” ― William Penn
In practice, debate is about cooperation. Part of the matter is accepting from the onset that each participant has an object to explain one side of the argument. Each will assist the other by diligently addressing their opponent's argument directly, asking focused questions for response, acknowledging not only their opponent's problematic points, but their own as well. More often than not, both sides learn something, and any lucky audience can benefit from the exchange. I've seen debate winners that never 'proved' their point, and I've seen debaters who did, and still 'lost.'
It doesn't work all the time. Sometimes debates are about issues which transcend, in part, pure reason... because that is how life works... lest we be robots. But debaters are not 'competitors' exactly. Like craftsmen creating something, they each contribute to an edifice. A building of some worth, for those interested in the topic especially. The result can be strong, beautiful, or rickety and weak... it's the effort that shines.
"Fun" debates can be silly, or not. "Serious" debates can be enthralling, or not. Debate isn't necessarily about what the debaters believes, or the truths they individually hold to. It's about the manner in which they can muster an argument... whether they can be cogent, direct, and efficient in defending or promoting their cause.
There's always merit to having a debate. -Ward Churchill
It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it. - Joseph Joubert
Soon we will be launching our debates here at Deny Ignorance... My hope is that we start small and work our way to the heavy topics... I think suggestions are in order, and nothing is off the table. I will give some example ideas... none of which are at all especially provocative... but I'm never one to shy away from the thrill of provocation. I tend to accept the underdog side, just because that's my preference, but I suggest you give it some thought...
I'm not certain that this particular thread is the right place to submit suggestions, being made of my own musings, I will inquire if we can formalize a destination for all your ideas...
Now ... on with some examples of debate topics...
Nursing Homes in America should be regulated by the government.
Abolish and reestablish all political parties.
Pet owners should be 'certified' before becoming responsible for pets.
Parents should be 'certified' prior to parenting.
Early schooling should include civic study as a prerequisite.
Media News services should publicly announce everything they report as an "entertainment" production.
Public representatives should have no privacy "in office."
The death penalty is murder.
These are just 'spit balling' ideas, and not really my suggestions for anyone to jump on (unless they want to,) but you get the idea.
This country is about, in my judgment, aggressive, open debate.
There is an old saying: When everyone is thinking the same thing, no one is thinking very much. - Byron Dorgan
I imagine the imagery surrounding debate is terribly afflicted with bad examples. Most of them are provided to the public via the showmanship of media exploitation. We often see abundant examples of "poor" debate in the public venues of the internet. Popular talking heads are featured prominently in internet monetized 'clips' which announce in their titles with taglines like "So and so crushes such and such." Usually, no such 'crushing' ever takes place, and the 'producers' simply appeal to the presumed love of one side or the others' bias. Most times there is not enough within the content to provide a basis to interpret the exchange as a debate at all.
Other examples feature something which is also not really debate at all. Our "political" debates are not even close. The moderators are weak, more concerned with form than function. The participants are campaigning, not debating. To add insult to injury, they aren't even addressing each other's points, just jabbing and engaging in populism and showmanship. Theater... you gotta love it, right?
Less thoughtful debaters are often thwarted by their own inability to stay away from attacking each other personally. And some even can't fathom that the topic is more important than opponent. They will casually use phrases like "You are just like a ...." or "People like you..." sadly considering a good quip or funny meme "a winning blow." There is place and time for such things, debate is not one of them. Name-calling, hyperbolic characterizations, extreme misinterpretations are all things we used to never accept except in activist journalism... and even then, it was recognized as opinion... now it seems it is sought after, and exalted as if it were a circus act... entertainment for its own sake. While debate can be entertaining, and even feature tremendous humor and wit, it will always be relevant to the central subject.
“In all debates, let truth be thy aim, not victory, or an unjust interest.” ― William Penn
In practice, debate is about cooperation. Part of the matter is accepting from the onset that each participant has an object to explain one side of the argument. Each will assist the other by diligently addressing their opponent's argument directly, asking focused questions for response, acknowledging not only their opponent's problematic points, but their own as well. More often than not, both sides learn something, and any lucky audience can benefit from the exchange. I've seen debate winners that never 'proved' their point, and I've seen debaters who did, and still 'lost.'
It doesn't work all the time. Sometimes debates are about issues which transcend, in part, pure reason... because that is how life works... lest we be robots. But debaters are not 'competitors' exactly. Like craftsmen creating something, they each contribute to an edifice. A building of some worth, for those interested in the topic especially. The result can be strong, beautiful, or rickety and weak... it's the effort that shines.
"Fun" debates can be silly, or not. "Serious" debates can be enthralling, or not. Debate isn't necessarily about what the debaters believes, or the truths they individually hold to. It's about the manner in which they can muster an argument... whether they can be cogent, direct, and efficient in defending or promoting their cause.
There's always merit to having a debate. -Ward Churchill
It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it. - Joseph Joubert
Soon we will be launching our debates here at Deny Ignorance... My hope is that we start small and work our way to the heavy topics... I think suggestions are in order, and nothing is off the table. I will give some example ideas... none of which are at all especially provocative... but I'm never one to shy away from the thrill of provocation. I tend to accept the underdog side, just because that's my preference, but I suggest you give it some thought...
I'm not certain that this particular thread is the right place to submit suggestions, being made of my own musings, I will inquire if we can formalize a destination for all your ideas...
Now ... on with some examples of debate topics...
Nursing Homes in America should be regulated by the government.
Abolish and reestablish all political parties.
Pet owners should be 'certified' before becoming responsible for pets.
Parents should be 'certified' prior to parenting.
Early schooling should include civic study as a prerequisite.
Media News services should publicly announce everything they report as an "entertainment" production.
Public representatives should have no privacy "in office."
The death penalty is murder.
These are just 'spit balling' ideas, and not really my suggestions for anyone to jump on (unless they want to,) but you get the idea.
This country is about, in my judgment, aggressive, open debate.
There is an old saying: When everyone is thinking the same thing, no one is thinking very much. - Byron Dorgan
