We are born free!

[LightAngel]

True freedom never existed to begin with.

Oh you plonker!   

[andy06shake]

Oh you plonker!   

LoL

Depends how we define freedom LightAngel.

We certainly need to believe we are free to a fashion.

Else the world and existance loses it's flavor...

[and then]

I love the concept and will happily entertain the illusory ideology as much as the next man.
 
I understand that freedom is a notion we cannot live without, and that humans would simply never get anything done without a modicum of trust. 

But I don't think true freedom exists in this world outside our own heads. 

Due to the fact that we require at least a semblance of rule and law to be in place if we wish to interact with one another in groups.
 
Otherwise, anarchy prevails, and survival of the fittest becomes the order of the day.

Then, freedom simply collapses into whoever is strongest or most organised.

I suppose the best way i could put it would be to suggest not that freedom cannot exist.

But that it's relative, and not absolute...

Say then the absence of the tyrannical crushing of human liberty.  When we see our courts fully politicized, then we can admit it is well and truly over.  Then comes a choice.  A choice not many other nations have today.  Each person has to draw their own line and stand behind it with their life to be truly free.

[andy06shake]

Say then the absence of the tyrannical crushing of human liberty.  When we see our courts fully politicized, then we can admit it is well and truly over.  Then comes a choice.  A choice not many other nations have today.  Each person has to draw their own line and stand behind it with their life to be truly free.

Sounds a bit final if you ask me...

Most people just want to get through the day.

And to do so, they require a semblance of law and order, hence not truly free.

Even a person who has drawn their own line in the sand still requires air and water to survive...

And do these patriot freedom fighters follow the likes of Abrahamic religions?

If so, heaven is a Kingdom, and god is not looking for equals, He's looking for subjects.

It depends on how we define freedom.  

But again, it's an illusory notion at best...

And there is always a cost to be had, both of the physical and psychological sorts.